Since 2006, AU’s Student Government has talked about creating a women’s resource center. The SG has also discussed starting an online veterans’ network. Next year, both projects will be completed. The Women’s Resource Center will open its doors in January 2010. The Veterans’ Network will launch next fall. The SG and the university should be commended for making good on a long-term promise. However, the creation of these centers raises questions about which special subgroups warrant their own university-funded resources.
Sarah Brown, the director of Women’s Initiative, said AU needs a women’s resource center because our campus needs “a full-time advocate for issues affecting women on campus.” The center, to be located in the Mary Graydon Center, will combine the resources of the Wellness Center and Women’s Initiative. It will also house a library of books on women’s issues and a counseling center.
Skeptics might question the necessity of yet another university-funded project that only benefits women. All of AU’s male students will be paying into the same fund that will create and maintain this center, but they won’t reap the same benefits as women will.
There are already several university-funded institutions devoted exclusively to women’s needs issues. Think Women’s Initiative. Think the Women and Politics Institute. There are also places where women and men can go for health-related issues. Think the Wellness Center. Think the Student Health Center. Do women really need another place to go to get their needs met? Maybe.
Even if the new Women’s Resource Center does go above and beyond what AU’s current women’s groups do, a question of principle still lingers. How many more special subgroups deserve university funding? Wouldn’t there be a way to address everyone’s needs without further segmenting this campus? Maybe not, but these are questions worth asking.
Certainly, if any special group deserves its own resource center, AU’s veterans do. One can argue that veterans may have very specific needs that aren’t easily addressed in the Student Health Center or the Wellness Center. In fact, one wonders why a physical women’s resource center is more of a priority than a physical veterans resource center. Student Government President Andy MacCracken said a veterans’ center is a possibility for the future, but it’s not even a sure thing. Are AU’s priorities where they should be?
There will be many students on this campus that will benefit from the creation of both the Women’s Resource Center and the Veterans’ Network. But students should ask questions about the purpose of any new campus project, especially when they’re funding it.
106 Comments
Alex Knepper
Nov 2 at 2:01 AM
There are issues affecting women on campus, alright, such as: How the hell can I get away from this patronizing, feminist nonsense?
Alex Knepper
Nov 2 at 2:03 AM
How about a men’s resource center?
Here’s my opening salvo:
“Because the question of what it means to be a man in contemporary American society is piercing and relevant, I propose that university funding be used to address the concerns of that much-neglected campus minority, the male. Resources will include documentaries, books, and accessories dedicated to the various debates and perspectives surrounding masculinity, manhood, male sexual and emotional health, and male-female interaction.”
Love it! Give me $10,000 please.
snarky
Nov 2 at 2:14 AM
And yet we still treat students with disabilities as 3rd class citizens.
K. Travis Ballie
Nov 2 at 2:18 AM
I think it is important to recognize that a Woman’s Resource Center does more than “just benefit women”, just like our GLBTA Resource Center is more than “just benefiting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students”. As a man, I have a lot to benefit from the womens’ resource center, my only disappointment is that it took this long to get one. Gender roles, masculinity and awareness of womens’ issues are areas that affect me as a male and my knowledge of them prepares me to be a greater asset for the workforce and a more aware citizen.
I actually love Alex Knepper’s concept, however from what I have discussed with people involved in chatting with people involved in creating the Womens’ Center, dealing with masculinity, manhood, male sexual and emotional health are all topics that are likely to be included.
Alex, I would love to work with on an event next semester called The Mens’ Health Forum. I am planning it under my capacity of Mens’ Outreach Director for Womens’ Initiative. I really would love to loop you in. Please contact me when you can, maybe we can grab some coffee!
By the time the Womens’ Resource Center is up and running I will have already graduated, which is unfortunate, but such a Resource Center will remind me to always maintain my relationship with this amazing university that has shaped me in such benevolent ways.
Ryan
Nov 2 at 2:19 AM
The men’s resource center would just be DVDs of Entourage, and lots of high-fiving.
K. Travis Ballie
Nov 2 at 2:39 AM
Just for disclosure, I am Men’s Outreach Director for Womens’ Initiative. Womens’ Initiative of course has been a key player in advocating for a Womens’ Resource Center.
Ian
Nov 2 at 2:41 AM
I would like a Little People’s Resource Center. The under-elevated on campus lack equal standing in AU discourse. The stunted ability of the wee folk to get the rest of AU to see eye-to-eye with them grossly diminishes their foothold in important debates.
Founding a Women’s Resource Center instead of a Little People’s Resource Center is a short-sighted blunder on the part of the administration. To correct this low blow, I propose that space on the ground floor of some single-story building on campus be written down as the new home of the American University Little People’s Resource Center.
K. Travis Ballie
Nov 2 at 2:54 AM
In a time where women make up more than half of today’s workforce, does it not make sense to have a Resource Center dedicated to creating an environment more attune to gender issues and womens’ issues? The Womens’ Resource Center is one of those programs that make perfect social justice and business sense, both for students’ careers and the future success of the university.
Student
Nov 2 at 3:46 AM
A well-written editorial. Not to be that guy, but I often feel forgotten as a male student at AU. Men’s issues are simply never, ever discussed—which makes the copious number of women-only resources at this campus all the more glaring.
K. Travis Ballie
Nov 2 at 3:59 AM
Dear Student,
I hear you, and I want to make sure I can address your concerns. Please Facebook me at “Kevin Travis Ballie” or travis.ballie at gmail.com and I would be happy to work with you. As Men’s Outreach Director for Womens’ Initiative I am working for you.
a woman
Nov 2 at 9:57 AM
Most major universities have a women’s center. It’s not uncommon. And I would never, ever argue that the Student Health center is devoted to women’s issues. Try again, Eagle staff.
Mahri
Nov 2 at 10:03 AM
I feel so incredibly sorry for all these neglected males in American patriarchy. Poor things. They’re so under-appreciated.
I don’t know why women are constantly demanding “special privileges” and attention for their so-called legitimate issues—after all, it’s not like women get paid less for the exact same jobs in the US, or get raped by men in the US on a regular basis (every 2 minutes), or walk down the street in DC and all other cities being constantly sexually harassed by men…
Seriously. I’m so sick of these women trying to get special attention. When are we going to start sticking up for the dudes in society who just want some respect and equal rights?
John Marzabadi
Nov 2 at 10:33 AM
First of all, most national universities have a Women’s Resource Center, it’s not uncommon at all. For a while now, Womens’ Initiative has had to fill this role (with vigor) and provide a number of services, including intimate partner violence and sexual assault counseling, education, and other resources.
The Eagle also completely missed the point of the project - it’s all about the university providing superior student services, not just about providing a space for “underrepresented” demographics.
Johnny
Nov 2 at 11:20 AM
There is no need for a Women’s Resource Center.
There’s already a Women’s Initiative directly under Student Government, which is an outstanding and powerful advocate of women’s rights and issues on campus. The department oversees all the notable events, such as Breastival, Vagina Monologues, Women’s History Month, and Take Back the Night and has a strong commitment in making policy changes on campus on behalf of women. So, I question, why is there a need for an additional department?
They said that the Women’s Resource Center would collaborate with the Student Health Center and Public Safety to make the campus safe for everyone. But is there a need for it? Student Health Center and Public Safety should be intuitively aware about these issues and should be responsible for keeping women safe on campus. We don’t need a Women’s Resource Center to provide additional support with Women’s Initiative. Take in mind that the money that funds their department comes from tuition and other extenuating fees; it won’t fund itself. Solution: It’s one OR the other, and I believe Women’s Initiative is doing a great job now.
JJ
Nov 2 at 11:46 AM
Travis if what your saying isn’t a massive load of pc nonsense, why are we calling it the Womens Center? Why not have a Gender Center.
Not that I’m advocating that, because that would be retarded. Stuff like that only exists on college campuses. Ya know in that bubble that shields us from the real world. Where people have real things to care about.
And Mahri: So you essentially support inequality on campuses and special treatment because you believe you believe a gender bloc as a whole is mistreated. There are plenty of Mens issues in which they are discriminated against in our society. In Family Court, in custody disputes, unfair treatment for male nurses and male flight attendants, men are forced into the selective service while women are not, etc. And one could argue men are discriminated against just for being men in our modern society.
Danielle Geong
Nov 2 at 11:47 AM
Women are not a “special subgroup” on campus, as the Eagle ed board suggests. Women are obviously the majority on campus, but AU still has a long way to go toward meeting the needs of its students.
It is silly to suggest a WRC is extraneous on campus. Women at AU are routinely sexually assaulted by other students. Female professors are routinely passed up for promotions and tenure. A Women’s Resource Center is much needed to improve the campus environment around these issues.
Anonymous
Nov 2 at 11:54 AM
As if AU didn’t have enough “resource centers”. The point is that we don’t need this. Unless we’re opening a Men’s resource center to create equality, let’s stop the waste on campus and divert these funds to more important things like refurbishing McKinley, etc.
Bill
Nov 2 at 12:24 PM
Having the Women’s Resource Center should (and supposedly and ideally, will) phase Women’s Initiative out of the SG. That’s what the past four or five WI Directors have said. WI was created with this goal in mind and, with the creation and implementation of the WRC, WI will be merged in some fashion into the WRC and WI’s SG budget allocation will be redistributed to other SG departments.
Ashley
Nov 2 at 1:26 PM
When men are losing an average of a million dollars over the course of their career due to pay discrimination, and when 1 in 4 men are sexually assaulted over the course of their lifetime, then maybe we’ll talk about a “men’s center to create equality,” anonymous. Until then, a WRC is needed & wanted on campus.
I would also like to make clear that there are huge differences between the abilities of a full-time student and a dedicated full-time staff member. Students are not equipped to handle reports of sexual assault or eating disorders from their peers, which are situations often encountered by a WI Director. Attempts to cope with such a burden of information alone, without proper training, can have negative effects on not only the Director but ultimately the student seeking care. However, WRC staff will be trained to handle these situations and direct students to the appropriate resources, resulting in a healthier student population.
Alex
Nov 2 at 1:31 PM
Good editorial.
Mahri - are you a talking points machine? “Women get paid less” Where did you learn that? A campaign ad? Do some research and you’ll find it’s not nearly as big a problem as you think it is.
Also, what is all this talk “most colleges have a women’s resource center therefore we should have one.” So I assume you’d be OK if AU defended it’s drug and alcohol policy by saying “most schools have strict policies, therefore we’re just going to be like most schools and keep our strict policy” It doesn’t matter what “most schools” have, what matters is what’s right.
The resource center would have books??? Hell, maybe the school should keep books about other issues as well, biology, history, psychology, art…oh wait. They do. It’s called the library. And I promise you it has books on women’s issues too.
You don’t need a resource center for that.
The “resource center” is a joke. We should have a center that says “feeling bad? having a rough day? Welcome to adulthood, suck it up and deal with it. Life is tough”
Leah Gates
Nov 2 at 1:57 PM
While Women’s Initiative is certainly the most appropriate venue for student-driven programming like those mentioned above, a volunteer-run department of the student government is not the appropriate venue for services like sexual assault counseling (currently decentralized to several resources in a way that is confusing and difficult for students to access when they need them), health and sexuality issues (yes, very much currently underserved by the Wellness and Health Centers, and all university offices are notoriously more responsive to concerns put forth by professional staff members than by students), advocacy within university administration on equality and access issues, and advising on personal and professional development issues. Yes, all students on campus face challenges. However, it is undeniable that certain kinds of challenges are a widely shared common experience among specific kinds of groups, and the provision of accurate and adequate guidance on those issues requires a breadth of knowledge and commitment of time that cannot be reasonably expected of a student organization or professional staff lacking any specialized knowledge or experience. It’s hard for me to imagine that a UNIVERSITY doesn’t benefit from persons with specialized, in-depth knowledge about specific issues and areas of concern.
For those arguing that calling it a Women’s Resource Center based on the identity of its primary audience means it would be unable to provide resources to men, does GLBTA only exist to serve the queer community? Or MA only to students of racial minorities? ISS to international students? Because if so, that would be an interesting news broadcast to all the allies, questioning students, student leaders (like RAs or members of student government who have chosen to educate themselves about the issues of students they are there to help, or participants in programs like STEP mentorship or International Student ambassadorships) and faculty and staff that rely on those resources on a daily basis. Having a full-time staff member allows for the provision of services based on mandatory, professional-level training. It allows a safe space for truly confidential consultation in a more legally certain environment than speaking to a student leader. And yes, it lets us make our library resources more accessible to anyone who needs them. I used to work for the library in the development department, and I can tell you that while women’s issues collections are certainly kept, they don’t have an endowment devoted to keeping them up to date or broadly representative of the discipline (unlike, say, American History, where women’s contributions and issues continue to be largely unrepresented) and without an endowment, their replenishment is by no means guaranteed. So the library is not a laughable resource, as other offices that maintain them, such as the GLBTA Resource Center, would no doubt be happy to assure you.
If you have any other questions, concerns, or suggestions about who the WRC will serve and how, I strongly encourage you to reach out to WI Director Sarah Brown, Deputy Director Jenny Keating, or, as he suggested above, Men’s Outreach Director Travis Ballie. If you have questions about my comments or opinions, you are welcome to facebook me and we can discuss it.
Leah Gates
Director of Vagina Monologues
Women’s Initiative
Alex
Nov 2 at 4:15 PM
Leah, how much is this “professional” going to be paid? Who is going to pay for him/her?
Snarky
Nov 2 at 4:33 PM
Well, if Neil Kerwin would take part of his deferred comp we could fund tons of resource centers.
JJ
Nov 2 at 4:42 PM
Call me crazy but yeah Q&A, MA, and ISS primarily serve Gays, Minorities, and International Students respectively. Your kind of kidding yourself if you don’t think thats true.
Robert Ruszczyk
Nov 2 at 5:18 PM
I don’t know why we’re arguing about this. We’re not going to win against this resource center because WI, one of the most powerful groups on campus want it and they get what they want. Never mind that the money could be spent elsewhere, like renovating McKinley or bringing in better faculty. The WI want it so it will happen.
But this could turn into a whole rant by me on WI, but I won’t go into that. Let me just say they demonize males on this campus, when the majority of the males on campus are good, caring, sensitive people, not the raping and pillaging barbarians WI makes us out to be. Just look at the Eagle Rants page, women complaining there aren’t smart males, cute males, sensitive males. We are here, you just choose to lump us together with those males who do not define us and who are the strict minority on this campus.
When you promise that it won’t be a “It’s okay, men are horrible,” center then I’ll agree to it’s creation, rather it will just serve the agenda of WI to demonize males and how we’re just keeping women down and abusing them and that’s our main goal and thought process with everything we do.
Leah Gates
Nov 2 at 7:35 PM
Obviously those resource centers are used primarily by their target demographics; the point I was making was that they are not used exclusively by them, and one of their central purposes is to be an educator and initiator of dialog to create greater awareness among all members of the campus community about the issues of their target demographic.
Alex, like all professional staff positions at the university, the Director of the Women’s Resource Center would be competitive hiring process in which salary negotiations take place. However, to learn more about this and other elements of the long-term planning process for the WRC, I recommend you contact .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) or the Office of Campus Life, which currently manages the Community Service Center, the GLBTA Resource Center, the Office of Greek Life, Kay Spiritual Life Center, Multicultural Affairs, DSS (and by the way, an earlier poster was completely correct in noting that the university is completely underserving disabled students), ISS, and Academic Support, all of which serve specific communities based upon unique needs as well as providing education and initiating dialog in the wider campus community, in complement to numerous student organizations pursuing similar if not identical goals, and all of which pay full-time staff.
Robert, I encourage you to speak with Travis about your concerns—WI continues to look for ways to reach out to male allies in a positive way, and there are currently several campaigns on campus aimed at encouraging men to challenge exactly the stereotypes and definitions of masculinity you have described. More feedback and collaboration on how to promote the inclusion of allies is always welcome, and we are lucky to have such a dedicated and motivated Men’s Outreach Director in the cabinet this year. I know this position has been chronically underutilized in the past, in part because of a lack of emphasis on its importance from other parts of our leadership and in part because it has been difficult finding someone willing to step up and take on such a challenging role in spite of the many negative attitudes you are finding to be so resonant. We do not and have never aimed to be an “It’s okay, men are horrible” center, and I think that’s an unfair generalization of WI programming. We have, however, always aimed to promote redefinitions of masculinity that don’t glorify domination, inequality, rigidity, and control in interactions between men and women. It seems like (hopefully) these are ideas you also embrace, so I hope you will get involved and help us to make our programming for men more meaningful and productive in light of your experiences.
Again, I encourage anyone wishing to voice specific concerns about the WRC plan to contact .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), and invite anyone with concerns about my specific comments to contact me via Facebook, as I cannot guarantee I will be checking this comment thread for updates regularly. I also hope the many male-identified voices participating here will connect with Travis to learn more about what is going on in Men’s Outreach this year.
Student
Nov 2 at 8:31 PM
According to the University’s budget (http://american.edu/finance/upload/BudgetFY10-FY11.pdf page 11) $57,000 were allocated for increased student support (including the WRC) this Fiscal Year, and $124,000 next year.
Alex
Nov 2 at 9:13 PM
57k this year and 124k next year! Leah do you see that? We could send multiple kids to college with that. But why do that when you can make more “support centers?”
Leah, you gave me an explanation of the hiring process of American University. I’m not interested in that. What I’m interested in how much it is going to cost, which the commenter right after you answered. You deflected my question by saying I should email someone to find out how salaries are negotiated. The wordiness of your answer did not make it any more legitimate.
I’ll tell you what I really think. WI doesn’t see the creation of a WRC as a benefit for women. Rather, they see it as a benefit for themselves. They will see it as a victory that they were able to do something that most people opposed (for good reason). Now of course, Leah and others from WI are going to deny this. It would be foolish of them not to. But all the WRC is is a battleground. It’s an issue WI can use to gain attention and feel good about themselves. It’s unfortunate that neo-feminists from WI (I have met some personally) have been able to hijack the word “women” for their own use. It’s like if a group of men who opposed women’s suffrage made a group called “men’s initiative” even though most men don’t agree with that.
Alex Knepper
Nov 2 at 11:44 PM
Leah, you speak of “male allies” to women as if men are otherwise naturally enemies of women. Of course, that’s what feminists do think, so…
Travis, I’d work with you on such a project if it wasn’t feminist in outlook. You say that the women’s resource center will address my concerns. But they will not. Everything in the resource center is going to be a from a feminist perspective. Please don’t say that it won’t, because it will.
By the way, please stop this bitching about “pay discrimination.” It’s not true. The methodology behind it is a simplistic averaging of all of the annual incomes of men and stacking it against the average of the annual incomes of women. But that’s incredibly retarded, since women are more likely to stay at home with children and take part-time jobs. Women actually make *more* than men in the fields of chemistry and engineering, for isntance. Also, it makes no goddamned sense from an economic standpoint: if a company can get 25% more profits from hiring women instead of men, why the fuck would anyone hire a man?
Carmen
Nov 3 at 1:42 AM
Alex, you speak of “male allies” in a way that deceives your snarky intent. Just for future reference, the phrase connotes the strange absence of men at the forefront of battling women’s issues like rape, domestic abuse, and workplace inequality- all situations that men claim to disdain and yet forget to challenge.
A WRC is not a feminist resource center, nor is it going to be some sort of anti-male zone of any kind. If you’re looking for books on masculinity, gender, relationships, and anything of the like, you will find them there. Similarly, if you’re looking for a space where women can confidentially speak to someone about sexual violence, experience a safe space from institutionalized sexism and the ratatat of angry antifeminists who begrudge their progress (familiar?), and simply gather with other women, you will find it there, too.
“But that’s incredibly retarded, since women are more likely to stay at home with children and take part-time jobs.”
There are one, two, three offensive and incorrect things in that statement.
G’day, kind sir.
Love,
Carmen Rios
(Director, Rape & Safety Dept., WI- and, to the person above angry about WPI, I work study there if you’re interested in our programming about political ambition and representation of women in politics. Glad you’re so dedicated to our mission!)
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 2:28 AM
I know it’s incredibly cliche, but there is some definite truth to the phrase “don’t judge someone till you walk a mile in their shoes.” As a woman, I can tell you the specific discrimination which I have faced. However, because I am white, and I am not disabled, and I am straight, I would never try to judge the types or extent of discrimination experienced by non-white people, disabled people, or GLBT people. As many facts as I can claim to have about the equality of, for instance, African Americans in today’s society, I cannot actually tell you whether or not African Americans are still discriminated against, because there is so much more to discrimination and harassment than simple figures regarding pay rates and the like.
Women are not equal to men in society. I can say this as a woman because I have experienced it. I may not always be able to give you an impressive list of figures, but I know.
Another point: feminists (at least none that I personally know) do not believe that men are “of the devil” or that all of them are rapists or the like. But there is a pervasive social view that men are supposed to be the leaders and that men are more likely to be better in business and other professional fields. That being said, this is not just a women’s issue. If a man shows too much emotion, he is discriminated against. Likewise, if a woman appears too cold, she is discriminated against.
Feminism is a misleading term. To me, and to all the feminists that I know, it means gender equality. But the term feminism, to too many people, indicates “women are amazing and men are evil; kill all the men.” This isn’t the view of most feminists (as far as I’m aware). So just as you ask women to not characterize all men as rapists, etc., please do not characterize all feminists as man-haters. We simply want equality. But because our society is imperfect and we have not yet achieved equality, women do face certain specialized issues which need to be addressed. Student volunteers at WI simply aren’t qualified to (and shouldn’t have to) counsel women through issues of sexual harassment, discrimination and abuse. Women do face these very real issues on an all too regular basis. While I am very aware that this treatment is only from a small minority of men, it still occurs and still requires specialized counseling and support. Let me put this in other terms: simply because only a infinitesimally minuscule percentage of extremists Muslims commit acts of terrorism does not mean that we ignore the terrorism and pretend that it never occurs. While, obviously, we must be incredibly careful to not view all Muslims as terrorists, we still must address those that are, attempt to protect ourselves, and provide support for those affected. While on a much less extreme scale, violence and discrimination against women is no different.
Also, quick side note to the person who made a comment about Kerwin’s salary: those figures are very skewed. Kerwin’s salary is comparable to all of our peer universities. In the DC area, he is only the third highest of private university presidents. His pay is moderate when compared nationally. When tallying his salary, they double counted the pay and interest which he received while he was interim president. Contact the Office of Development here if you want to know the actual figures.
Student
Nov 3 at 2:37 AM
Alex Knepper, I just wanted to thank you for keeping me entertained nearly every other day with your ridiculous, hateful, ignorant comments. As a liberal on this campus, I extend my sincere thanks to you for consistently reinvigorating the progressive students on this campus. Anger might not be positive, but it sure is effective. Thank you for your baseless comments and your utter unwillingness to see matters from more than one perspective.
Leah Gates
Nov 3 at 4:19 AM
Alex (thanks for finally taking responsibility for your comments and using your whole name, by the way), Carmen and Kim have already done an excellent job of refuting a lot of your other points, which is wonderful as you were so wrong I did not even know where to begin. But since I know numbers are important to you, I’m going to have to ask you to use them accurately.
a) The $0.77 to the dollar pay gap does NOT include part time work. But you are correct, if it was included, the number would be EVEN LOWER, due to women’s increased likelihood to work reduced schedules because of childcare. (Feminists, by the way, advocate that implying that only women can bond with their children and first and foremost bear responsibility for their care—the logic that underlies denying fathers custody, denying paternity leave or affordable childcare, and promotion of un-nurturing or uncaring images of men, as well as inhibiting women’s full participation in the workforce—is bad for EVERYONE and should be changed.) Source: http://www.iwpr.org/pdf/Updated2006_C350.pdf
b) “Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts. This pay gap has persisted for the past two decades.” The report also notes that work patterns (including women’s need to take more time off due to their expected role as caregivers, depriving not only hourly-waged employees but salaried employees who then lose out during raise and merit pay evaluations) only partially explained the pay gap. Source: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0435.pdf
c) Women clearly do not yet have equal access to all levels of success and employment regardless of qualification. AU, for example, is ahead of most colleges in terms of equality within the administration, and we still have only ONE female University Professor, and only 37% of senior faculty is female, and none of the schools are headed by a female dean, except the School of Education, Teaching, and Health, which still technically resides within CAS. While this is better than Harvard being proud of its 13% female senior faculty, it’s clearly a long way to go. (Source: http://www.american.edu/provost/speech042507.cfm) Even more dramatically, women hold only THREE PERCENT of “clout” (ie positions with decision-making responsibility) in mainstream media, according to a report by the Annenberg Center. It’s not just about equal rights and protection under the law, it’s about access to opportunity—a road where there is obviously a long way to go. Source: http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/Downloads/Information_And_Society/20031222_Glass_Ceiling/20031222_glass-ceiling_report.pdf
Oh, and no one is going to argue with you that WRC resources will not be from a “feminist perspective.” Why? Because “feminism” means simply the believe that all people are entitled to equal rights and access to opportunities, and that inequalities resulting from sex or gender distinctions are the particular focus of a “feminist’s” activism—just as a “gay rights activist” doesn’t only believe in rights for gay people or that gay people are entitled to greater or superior rights, but focuses on that particular set of inequalities, a “feminist” has chosen to use their inherently limited time and energy to pursue remedy of inequalities along sex and gender lines. Given that it is a Women’s Resource Center, I would find it difficult to believe a focus on issues of sex and gender to be inappropriate, and I would have a real problem with an office on campus that *wasn’t* basing its actions on the perspective that all people are entitled to equal dignity and access.
Oh, and way to prove the earlier point that AU has totally failed to foster a community cognizant of issues of ability by describing something as “retarded” because you don’t understand it.
But at the end of the day, the reason there’s no “Men’s Center” or it’s not the “Gender Center” is that it was women that felt there was a meaningful gap in resource provision to meet their needs, and they organized to get that need met. You want a resources tailored to your needs? Get off you ass and do something about it, and stop whining that someone else didn’t just automatically take your desires into account. Assuming that everyone else takes actions with a priority given to your needs and desires is the very definition of privilege, and a perfect example of why people need to organize to question privilege to promote equality of rights and access for all.
I’m a member of the (admittedly very large) community of women on this campus. There are services and resources that I think would improve my experience here and my development as a person consistent with the mission of the university. I participated in organizing with others having a similar experience and we fought for what we thought would make things better for everyone.
Oh, and I’m sorry I directed you to someone who would actually be able to answer your question instead of giving you numbers that include, but are not limited to, the project you asked for, telling you nothing other than that in its first year, when all the costs of set up are incurred, it’s approximate cost will fall somewhere below ~$175,000 in the next two years. That’s a pretty useless set of numbers, and if I were you, I’d rather someone just tell me who might know. And no one would know how much a resource center costs to run than the department that runs every resource center on campus. You’ll have for forgive me, as I’m WI’s Director of Vagina Monologues and not the point person on the WRC—which is why I directed you to the point person on the WRC, WI Director Sarah Brown. I would rather only give out accurate information, and I apologize if that doesn’t fit with your need for instant gratification. Of course, if you actually cared about getting information on this project, you would have bothered to ask someone who could give it to you rather than bitching about it in the Eagle comments, where no one has any obligation to give you that information.
WI welcomes and celebrates the many men on AU’s campus open to ideas of equality and new conceptions of gender and sexual identity that reject notions of inequality, domination, and exploitation as somehow inherent to the way men and women must interact. We are grateful for the bravery of men who are willing to stand up to their peers and challenge traditional notions of gender roles and incorrect assumptions about the real extent of inequality along many lines in our society. I know I for one am reminded of how difficult that must be when confronted with the kind of small-mindedness that has been expressed in these comments, and I have deep respect for those able to do so.
Alex
Nov 3 at 10:44 AM
Just like to point out that I (Alex) am not Alex Knepper.
I don’t have time to respond to everything here but I would like toi respond to this:
“But that’s incredibly retarded, since women are more likely to stay at home with children and take part-time jobs.”(This was said by Alex Knepper)
There are one, two, three offensive and incorrect things in that statement. (This was said by Carmen)
———
No Carmen, that is not incorrect. In fact, if you’ve ever read a book about biology as opposed to sociology, you’d know that. Women are more likely to stay at home with children. I assume you’re around 20 years old right now. When you’re around 26, there is going to be a second wave of hormonal changes in your body. You’re going to have a much larger desire to have children and be with them. This is not a social role, it is a biological one. Look at polls and studies conducted of women in their late 20s. They are much more likely than men to want to work part time in exchange for being with their kids. I am not suggesting that women shouldn’t be allowed to work full time by any means. I am simply saying women generally have a stronger biological attachment to their children. It is the reason they more often get custody of children in divorces. I believe this because I believe in evolution. Carmen, do you not believe in evolution?
Nas
Nov 3 at 11:24 AM
If you don’t want to be confused with Alex Knepper, go by your full name or stop acting as wingman to his wingnut.
That said, when even Newsweek refutes evolutionary psychology (http://www.newsweek.com/id/202789), you should know that your retrogade opinions are uninformed, baseless, and—yes—unscientific.
P.S. What is “belief” in evolution? It’s a fact, and it has zero to do with socially and culturally mediated human behavior.
P.P.S. Since you missed it, I’ll be the one to let you know that the third offensive and incorrect thing—not politically incorrect, just plain incorrect—you said there was “retarded”. People can be retarded, not arguments or statements you find lacking, and they do not need to be used as terms of insult. It is as wrong as using “gay” in the same way.
Alex
Nov 3 at 12:59 PM
I see no reason to go by my full name. Secondly, pot calling the kettle black at all Nas? Where is your last name?
About evolutionary psychology. You’re citing a Newsweek article to call my comments uninformed? I base my opinions off of books i.e. The Red Queen, The Disposable Male, The Selfish Gene etc, that cite numerous and extensive studies about the issue. My “retrograde opinions” are not uniformed, baseless or unscientific.
I suggest you pick up one of those books and you’ll see what role evolution plays in human behavior, including the differences between men and women. You’ll learn why women want children. You’ll learn why young boys are far more likely to die than girls. You’ll learn why men occupy more upper-level positions, and it’ll go beyond the simple PC explanation of “sexism.”
Retarded refers to a sort of genetic mutation? Really? I had no idea. Thanks for the lesson on PC language.
Robert Ruszczyk
Nov 3 at 1:11 PM
“But at the end of the day, the reason there’s no “Men’s Center” or it’s not the “Gender Center” is that it was women that felt there was a meaningful gap in resource provision to meet their needs, and they organized to get that need met. You want a resources tailored to your needs? Get off you ass and do something about it, and stop whining that someone else didn’t just automatically take your desires into account.”
Yes, Leah, like men could really organize. This is precisely the reason why we don’t agree with this. If men tried to organize in the manner that women have on this campus, we would be shouted down and called chauvinists, sexists, rapists, supporting the patriarchal hierarchy, etc, etc, etc. This would be just at the announcement of the formation of a group we’ll call “Men’s Initiative.” MI for short.
Now MI has not even met, but it would have already been denounced. But we perservere. Now we create a Mens Resource Center. The Mens resource center has a mission statement similar to the one you’re professing to the WRC, one such as,
“A WRC is not a feminist resource center, nor is it going to be some sort of anti-male zone of any kind. If you’re looking for books on masculinity, gender, relationships, and anything of the like, you will find them there. Similarly, if you’re looking for a space where women can confidentially speak to someone about sexual violence, experience a safe space from institutionalized sexism and the ratatat of angry antifeminists who begrudge their progress, and simply gather with other women, you will find it there, too.”
But let’s rephrase this for our purpose….
“A MRC is not a chauvinistic resource center, nor is it going to be some sort of anti-woman zone of any kind. If you’re looking for books on masculinity, gender, relationships, and anything of the like, you will find them there. Similarly, if you’re looking for a space where men can confidentially speak to someone about relationship issues, experience a safe space from institutionalized sexism and the ratatat of angry feminists who begrudge their organization, and simply gather with other men, you will find it there, too.”
Sounds like a men’s club doesn’t it. Clubs that don’t allow women. Hmm, that sounds familiar…. Sounds like a men’s social club. You know, those ones women have been protesting for years and in certain states are illegal? So if we do found this MRC as it is proposed by the WI, then we would be violating laws and could be shut down. Do you see the hypocrisy here? Before you do anything like this, you really should consider the ramifications and you’re feelings on if men did the same thing you’re doing now. And if you do, maybe you’ll see why we’re anti-WRC. If you would like to dispute this, facebook me, I’m not hard to find at all.
Alex Knepper
Nov 3 at 1:18 PM
Leah—First of all, I am not “Alex.” I am Alex Knepper. “Alex” is a separate commenter; I’d appreciate if he would use his last name or last initial.
Second, what on Earth is wrong with women losing time, pay, and status for taking time off for having and raising children? I see no problem with this. All of life is decision-making. If you want to be a high-powered female executive, go for it. But don’t force corporations to accommodate your side ventures, whether they be motherhood or otherwise, or bitch when they lead to a loss of status.
Listen, I’ve had this same argument over the pay gap myth about ten thousand times. When people say that such factors don’t “account for the full gap,” it means that it accounts for all but about 2-3% of a gap—in other words, a rounding error. There are some professions in which women make more than men, especially ones in which ‘diversity’ is in high demand—like engineering or chemistry.
Finally, so what if there aren’t as many women professors? Not as many women want to *be* professors. There aren’t as many male elementary school teachers, nurses, social workers, homemakers, or secretaries. Is this evidence of discrimination, or of varying tastes according to biology? The religion of feminism says that the mind is a blank slate at birth and that gender roles are constructed; modern psychology, anthropology, and common sense tell us that men and women are different.
Carmen—“the phrase connotes the strange absence of men at the forefront of battling women’s issues like rape, domestic abuse, and workplace inequality- all situations that men claim to disdain and yet forget to challenge.”
What in fucking hell do you want me to do about rape and domestic abuse? As a strong advocate of law-and-order, I want domestic abusers to be put away for years upon years and would have no problem with rapists being executed. They’re barbaric, savage, sub-humans. But I can’t fucking stop rape. “Men can stop rape” is a catchphrase, not an action plan. I’m not going to go march on the streets so I can win the approval of feminists. I know what I stand for and what I advocate, which is the non-initiation of force in all things.
Also, Carmen, if it won’t be a feminist resource center, can I expect to find books by Christina Hoff Sommers, there? Such as “Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women” and “The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men”?
Alex Knepper
Nov 3 at 1:21 PM
Will books about womanhood by women like Phyllis Schlafly be in the women’s resource center?
How about anti-radical-feminism books by Christina Hoff Sommers?
How about books like “Save the Males” by Kathleen Parker?
How about the book “Girls Gone Mild”?
Will the new book by Sarah Palin be heralded, since she’s a high-powered, strong American woman who kicked out the good old boys of Frank Murkowski and company in Alaska?
Will I be able to find books supporting traditional gender roles?
Since it’s not a feminist center, after all.
Alex M
Nov 3 at 3:56 PM
I’d be willing to bet you wouldn’t.
Alex
Nov 3 at 3:57 PM
Seriously, why are we having this discussion. These resource centers are being emphasized so much now because women are failing to integrate fully into society. Instead of allowing women to succeed in the kitchen, take care of children, wash clothes and cook for her husband, we as a society force them to work despite their frail bodies.
Clearly, women have problems driving and doing anything that requires physical exertion. In the words of Phyllis Schlafly, why do women need equal rights? Women are excellent in the domestic sphere. Please, women stay there.
When women get increased freedoms, they turn into prostitutes either for money or to get opportunities for promotions. Many of the girls at AU, only look at what is best for themselves and their promiscuous sex lives than what is best for society.
JJ
Nov 3 at 4:09 PM
Freaking awesome Alex Knepper. Good job.
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 4:54 PM
“When women get increased freedoms, they turn into prostitutes either for money or to get opportunities for promotions. Many of the girls at AU, only look at what is best for themselves and their promiscuous sex lives than what is best for society.”
I seriously hope you are being sarcastic.
I am a woman. I am an AU student. I am a feminist. I am NOT sexually promiscuous. In fact, I am as far from promiscuous as you can get. I am ABSOLUTELY NOT wanting to become a prostitute! In fact, I want to become a prosecutor, and probably go into politics at some point. I want to do these things not because I am a woman but because I am a human being with natural human desires to make an impact on this world.
To quote Alice Paul in Iron Jawed Angels: “You ask me to explain myself. I’m just wondering, what needs to be explained? It should be very clear. Look into your own heart—I swear to you, mine is no different. You want a place in trade and profession where you can earn your bread; so do I. You want the means of self-expression; so do I. You want to satisfy your own personal ambitions; so do I. You want a voice in the government in which you live; so do I. So what is there to explain?”
I want to make an impact on this world. And I am determined to do so. And while I absolutely love and respect the desire which many women have to stay at home (my mother was a stay-at-home mom, and I have the utmost respect for her), that is simply not something which I would feel fulfilled doing. In today’s society, men do not have to fight for their rights. They simply have them. And while, to some degree, I sympathize with the reverse-discrimination argument, until we have actually achieved equality, in action and in thought, groups which are discriminated against need extra resources.
Also, to everyone who has said that women would bash men if they attempted to create a men’s initiative: no, we would’t. We would support it wholeheartedly as long as it wasn’t a chauvinistic organization. The very fact that we have a men’s coordinator in the women’s initiative is indicative of this.
I am in no way surprised that you are not revealing your last name. I would be ashamed to have such chauvinistic views also.
And if you are being sarcastic (which I sincerely hope you are), please make it clearer next time.
Carmen
Nov 3 at 5:03 PM
Second, what on Earth is wrong with women losing time, pay, and status for taking time off for having and raising children?”
Because men have been parenting and working since the beginning of “civilization” without compromising any of their privilege, point blank.
Secondly, you end rape by actively challenging rape culture, not by sitting around praising yourself for actually respecting someone’s sexuality and sexual well-being. You, sir, get no kudos for “believing in law and order.” You get kudos for actually attempting to end rape.
Carmen
Nov 3 at 5:05 PM
“Seriously, why are we having this discussion. These resource centers are being emphasized so much now because women are failing to integrate fully into society. Instead of allowing women to succeed in the kitchen, take care of children, wash clothes and cook for her husband, we as a society force them to work despite their frail bodies.”
I find no freedom in the kitchen, kid.
John Madden
Nov 3 at 5:11 PM
BOOM!
Ya know, I love a good game of internet shouting! As they (er, I) say, “if you see a defense team with dirt and mud on their backs they’ve had a bad day.”
Well I’ll tellya what, its sure looks like the feminists have dirt on their backs. Ya see Knepper, the skinny tight end over there? He just executed one hellvua play. That’s one for the highlight reels!
Now if ya don’t mind, I’m gonna go cook myself a Turducken, since the feminists stole my cook, er, wife.
Robert Ruszczyk
Nov 3 at 5:13 PM
Carmen, please explain what you mean by “challenging the rape culture.” Again, it’s buzz words and catchphrases that your using that have no real backing to them. I don’t believe in rape, I don’t believe in abuse, I don’t condone it and I surely don’t practice it. What else would you rather me do?
Robert Ruszczyk
Nov 3 at 5:15 PM
And Carmen, I want real physical things I can do, not key words and abstract concepts like the afore mentioned “challenging the rape culture.”
Alex
Nov 3 at 5:18 PM
Kim,
Thank you for your lengthy and heated reply. I’ve taken the time to analyze your thought. Here is my response.
I would like to emphasize that disagreement about the role of women in society does not necessarily constitute “chauvinistic” views. I was simply stating the opinion that the need for a Women’s Resource Center comes out of society’s failure to protect women. The Center serves to right the wrongs of society’s failure to keep women in the domestic sphere.
I did not mean to imply that you are a prostitute in the literal sense. I am positive that you will not be walking the streets and sleeping with men for money. I do support legalized prostitution, so if you do choose this route in the future, all the power to you.
Prostitution comes in many shapes and forms. Since you would like to be a part of the legal profession, I’m sure you are aware that prostitution in the legal profession can come in the form of offering sex for a promotion. I do not mean to suggest that you are that kind of person, but I mean to differentiate between low class prostitution and sex for promotions. I am positive that you are an upstanding and moral woman who is just misguided.
Everyone deserves to be happy and pursue life to the fullest. Believing that women need to be protected is analogous to the controversial issue of same sex marriage. Disagreement over same sex marriage does not mean those who oppose it are bigots, but rather have policy disagreements. Although I am supportive of same sex marriage, I feel the same logic applies here.
Being a feminist does not give you the right to write illogically. I would suggest that if you desire changes in public policy, you should work to change society. I do want you to understand that policy disagreements do not make anyone sexist or bigoted.
In order to promote tolerance, please show tolerance.
Thank you.
Alex
-fellow AU student and feminist w/differing views
Vanessa C. Mueller
Nov 3 at 5:19 PM
OK, I’ll bite.
As a former Director of WI, and the drafter of the phased proposal for the WRC (with Joe Vidulich and Joseph Pavel) in 2007, I take issue with Alex’s supposition that supporters of the resource center see it purely as a benefit for ourselves. At the time, we collected hundreds of signatures (from students all along the political and gender spectrum) supporting the creation of the WRC as well as letters of support from various staff and faculty members. These were submitted with the proposal.
Our proposal understood that these things take time. Many of the people who began the fight for the WRC are no longer students and will never benefit from the resource center in any way. The proposal outlined not only the functions of the WRC, but also articulated the reasons why one is needed on AU’s campus. It was available on the SG website for quite some time, however, it appears to have been dropped in the recent revamp. Since it is clear that few of the posters here have read it, I will contact current Director Sarah Brown about re-posting it. Please keep in mind that it may be different from the mission/goals actually adopted by the administration.
Furthermore, to suggest that the WRC is supported only by women ignores the hard work and diligent advocacy of men like former SG President Joseph Vidulich, former SG President and current Student Trustee Seth Cutter, current SG President Andrew MacCracken, former Student Trustee Marc Tomik, and former Student Trustee David Teslicko. The budget item was approved by the male-dominated (but still awesome!) Board of Trustees, head of the Budget Committee and VP of Finance Don Meyers, and University President Kerwin. The proposal has been reviewed and vetted by many people, and it was approved because they believe, as we do, that it will be a benefit to the entire University.
Oh, and Mr. Knepper - during my term, I personally purchased several of the books you mention for the WI resource library (which we plan to donate to the WRC when it opens). I have read most of Christina Hoff Sommers’s and Phyllis Schlafly’s work, as well as Camille Paglia, Mary Pride and others. While I found their arguments unconvincing, their voices contribute to the discussion we are having, and should not and will not be silenced in the type of WRC we hope to build.
Finally, I am excited to hear that in the brief time since I graduated from AU, WI has become “one of the most powerful groups on campus” which “get[s] what they want.” Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen! You have nearly a decade of WI alumni still logging on to the Eagle, writing letters to administration, donating money, and supporting your work.
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 5:27 PM
Carmen, please add to or clarify it I leave something out…
The “rape culture” is the binary within our society which indicates that men are rational strong, the provider, active, powerful and violent while women are emotional, weak/fragile, needing provisions, inactive, powerless, and inept.
To shamelessly plagiarize from my philosophy professor: to battle a worldview, you often start by battling the conditions.
So, to change this binary which boxes men and women into specific “traditional” (i.e. sexist) gender roles, we must actively stop doing and saying things which, intentionally or unintentionally reinforce the binary. For instance, when men insult each other, they often tell each other to “grow a pair,” call each other a “pussy,” or tell each other to “man up.” All of these insults are essentially saying that it is a problem for men to fall outside of the traditional binary of social roles. Likewise, when women insult each other, they call each other “bitches” and other derogatory and degrading towards women terms. These are just a few examples of how you would combat the “rape culture.”
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 5:45 PM
Alex, first off, I am sorry for using the word chauvinist. I was angry, so I let my emotions run away with me, but I should have chosen my words more carefully. I’m sorry.
“I was simply stating the opinion that the need for a Women’s Resource Center comes out of society’s failure to protect women. The Center serves to right the wrongs of society’s failure to keep women in the domestic sphere.”
Like I say in the previous post regarding “rape culture,” part of the problem which women face today is this notion that we need to be “protected.” We are not “frail bodied, feeble little mice” (yes, I am exaggerating here to prove a point). I am a strong, independent woman. So why then do I feel the need for a WRC? For the same reason that minority ethnic groups often need special resources. I’m not sure where you stand on affirmative action (and I am conflicted about it myself), but the reasoning behind it is not a need to “protect” African Americans and other minority groups, but simply to help reverse some of society’s wrongs (I agree with you on that point).
I am a very passionate person and I do enjoy arguing my view points. That doesn’t make me intolerant. If I began to tell you that you cannot believe what you believe or cannot speak it, that would be intolerance. For instance: I disagree wholeheartedly with white supremacists groups. I will not refrain from debating their views with them. I will even tell them that I believe their views are wrong. I will not, however, tell them that they cannot have their views.
Also, quick clarification: do you believe that women are supposed to be in the home and at the same time call yourself a feminist? If so, how do you rectify those two?
Kathryn B
Nov 3 at 5:58 PM
This editorial argues that men will not benefit from the Women’s Resource Center in the same way as women. As Leah said above (allow me to paraphrase) “Resource centers are used primarily by their target demographics, but not exclusively by them.” Creating a campus community of equality benefits *ALL* AU students, staff, faculty, and community members regardless of gender or gender identity. For example, as a straight female, I have found the GLBTA Resource Center indescribably helpful in my quest to be an ally to this community. Similarly, the WRC will provide resources and information to all individuals interested in issues of gender, gender equality, and related subjects.
Furthermore, the WRC will help students of all genders and gender identities answer questions that have been asked in this discussion such as, “What else would you rather me do [to stop rape]?” or “Why do women need equal rights?” or “What in fucking hell do you want me to do about rape and domestic abuse?” It is my sincere hope that the posters who have asked these questions here will take advantage of the WRC’s resources to discover answers to these questions for themselves. In the meantime, the (con)sensual campaign, a project of WI’s rape and safety department, is a great way to get involved with building a campus-wide climate of respect and communication in sexual relationships.
Kathryn Baxter
Director of Communications and Outreach, WI
JJ
Nov 3 at 6:32 PM
What the fuck is rape culture? I can promise myself not to be a rapist, but I’m not going to hit the beat at night with a night stick.
Also Kim if you want to prove that Women don’t need “emotional, weak/fragile, needing provisions…” etc then you probably don’t want to advertise that you think Women need a special resource center on campus for their ‘special needs’ especially when they are the majority on campus. It does nothing other than make it seem like Women are weak, fragile, and needing provisions.
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 7:00 PM
JJ, my argument is not that women need a resource center to provide for special needs because we are women, but but we need a resource center to provide for special needs because we are discriminated against. The view that we need to be protected and that we are weak and fragile is part of this discrimination. And while, to some people, the WRC runs the risk of perpetuating the notion that we need special provisions due to our gender, I am willing to take that risk in order to help people through issues of discrimination.
So, like I said before, extra resources are needed because of discrimination, not because of gender.
Alex Margolis
Nov 3 at 7:12 PM
I just need to clarify something, I was writing my name as “Alex” then “Alex M” and now my full name. The Alex who said “Seriously, why are we having this discussion…” and “Kim,
Thank you for your lengthy and heated reply…” is not me.
Kim, we must stop saying things that reenforce the binary? First off, I think we need to understand that males and females are different. There is a binary. Men are more violent. They are generally physically stronger. Women excel in creative arts and writing while men are usually better in math and science. This is not sexism. A man’s brain is different than a woman’s brain. We shouldn’t differentiate between men and women? Is it wrong for there to be a men’s category and women’s category in olympic sports?
Secondly, people saying “man up” or calling people “bitch” does not lead men people raping people. I don’t know exactly how someone can bring themselves to rape someone, but I highly doubt they think society will accept them once they do it. Telling people not to say things seems to be the simple PC solution to everything these days. It’s the reason for speech codes on college campuses. “Maybe if people get in trouble for saying the N-word, racism will die out” Give me a break.
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 7:30 PM
Alex Margolis, thanks for clarifying the name confusion.
I definitely acknowledge a difference between men and women. But the important point to note is the very word “usually” which you used. Yes, more men tend to be better than more women at sports and possibly science and the like. But not ALL men are better then ALL women. Gender is a very ambiguous concept. It’s not a binary in the sense of all women are this way and all men are this way. It’s a continuum in that more women tend to be on the “feminine” end of the continuum and more men tend to be on the “masculine” end of the continuum (when I say the terms masculine and feminine, I am relying on the traditional sense of the words for ease of understanding). However, there can be and is a lot of crossover: men who lean more towards the feminine side and women who lean more towards the masculine side.
The point of all this is that all women and all men should not be categorized based upon their sex as an individual’s sex alone is not necessarily indicative of their individual needs and characteristics.
I know that stopping those phrases alone will not stop the “rape culture” just as stopping people from saying the N-word stops racism. But the ideas of racism are a degree less pervasive if the N-word and other discriminatory words, notions and ideas are removed from the vernacular. I’m not saying I have all the solutions. I don’t. I wish I had a 1-2-3 step process to end inequality. That would be nice. But that’s not reality. I only brought up the “man up” as one possible and very minor step towards the solution. I would love to have other people provide more possible solutions. In fact, I would love a resource group to help figure out this question on our campus…which is what this whole thread is supposed to be about anyways.
Alex Knepper
Nov 3 at 7:50 PM
“Secondly, you end rape by actively challenging rape culture…you get kudos for actually attempting to end rape. “
Hahahahaha. Oh, wow…
Alex Knepper
Nov 3 at 7:54 PM
“Because men have been parenting and working since the beginning of “civilization” without compromising any of their privilege, point blank.”
One of the privileges of womanhood is the natural proclivity toward care-taking and bonding with one’s child from the moment of conception. Women, in general, are the natural care-takers, the natural nurturers. If you don’t want that for yourself, fine, if you do, fine—but don’t force private companies to accommodate your lifestyle choices. Sorry, but you can’t have it all. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Pretty basic stuff.
Alex Knepper
Nov 3 at 7:56 PM
More women than men go to college—by far. (The gap is even more pronounced amongst minority races.)
More girls than boys take AP classes and take the AP tests.
More boys than girls are expelled.
More boys than girls are suspended.
More boys than girls regularly fail classes.
Boys are diagnosed with ADHD and ADD at four times the rate of girls.
An article less than a decade back in England declared that men may become the future “second sex” because of the failure of boys in British schools.
When will Carmen and Leah sound the alarm about the boy crisis in our schools?
Alex Margolis
Nov 3 at 9:57 PM
Oh god comon. This “exceptions” talk. It’s never OK to make generalizations because there will always be “exceptions.” You, me and everyone alive makes generalizations. Is it wrong to say “it’s cold in the wintertime” because there might be a few days when its 65 degrees out?
No one is saying an individual must act like the average of his/her gender. How are males and females “categorized” in a way thats wrong?
If a man and women go to a doctor complaining of chest pain, should the doctor assume they have the same chance of having breast cancer? Afterall, even though women get breast cancer far more often than men, we shouldn’t generalize right? There always could be an exception no?
Kim Loewen
Nov 3 at 11:16 PM
Alex Marjolis, You’re addressing biological sex distinctions, not gender distinctions. They are two completely separate things.
The problem is that women are all too often categorized as “weak” and subordinate to men and are thus discriminated against and harassed. The reason why I brought up the binary in the first place was in response to a question about the concept of a “rape culture” (and I take responsibility for digressing greatly from the original question). So when I say that we need to break the binary, what I mean is that we need to stop viewing women as below men and needing to be dominated. This view, whether openly admitted or culturally implied, empowers the motives behind rape.
We have digressed completely with talk about biological versus personality differences between men and women. That’s not the point. The point is breaking the social view that men are superior to women and have a right, because of their sex, to dominate women, whether it is simply in intellectual spheres of work and education or, in the extreme cases of rape and assault, in the physical sphere.
JJ
Nov 4 at 12:08 AM
So it sounds like you are creating a center to espouse a political and philosophical view that you hold.
Ken
Nov 4 at 12:40 AM
JJ
November 3, 2009 at 3:06 PM
“I know a lot of people won’t agree, but the Eagle isn’t the place for academic or intellectual discussion. It’s where we want to see shit go down.”
http://www.theeagleonline.com/news/story/justice-department-must-be-reformed-de-politicized/
Alex Margolis
Nov 4 at 12:58 AM
OK Kim, you went from stating how this binary was saying men are rational and strong while women are weak and emotional to, “So when I say that we need to break the binary, what I mean is that we need to stop viewing women as below men and needing to be dominated.”
And we also need world peace. Comon, what is that supposed to mean? Some people have discriminatory views and it would better if they didn’t have those views?
I should have added this before. I think it’s absolutely disgusting that you say we live in a “rape culture.” 1. Sexual discrimination, in the workplace or education, while admittedly does exist, is not rape. 2. Just because some people are rapists does not make the culture a “rape culture.” So much for your talk about not generalizing because of exceptions…
And for everyone, a quick biological-explanation-for-something-you-thought-was-social factoid: During heterosexual intercourse, many couples say they enjoy when the male holds the female still, in a dominating like fashion. The reason? Because males are chauvinist, dominating pigs? Nope. Correct answer: It is much easier for the sperm to reach and fertilize the egg when the female isn’t moving.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 1:00 AM
“what I mean is that we need to stop viewing women as below men and needing to be dominated. This view, whether openly admitted or culturally implied, empowers the motives behind rape.”
“Cultures” cannot rape a person; only people can rape people.
If you want to wage a war against biology to try and make it seem like women are naturally as dominant as men, good luck. But please know that it’s a war that you cannot win.
Women have raped men, before, by the way men; it happens quite frequently, but men never admit it in fear of looking shameful.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 1:01 AM
“The point is breaking the social view that men are superior to women and have a right, because of their sex, to dominate women, whether it is simply in intellectual spheres of work and education or, in the extreme cases of rape and assault, in the physical sphere.”
Is there anyone sane in existence who actually thinks that men have the “right” to rape women?
Is there anyone sane in existence who even thinks that men should “dominate” women in the workplace, even?
Why do feminists use this rape straw man? This is one of the most idiotic conversations I’ve had this year.
Alejandro
Nov 4 at 3:05 AM
Come now, Margolis, be intellectually honest. Stay on topic and explain what evolutionary psychology has to say about rape. That it is men spreading their genes through a woman who they have determined to be a biological match. That abortion threatens the products of these matches and thus the ideal reproduction the species. Will you take this argument to its natural conclusion, or do you only seek to naturalize what is merely incorrect?
Carmen
Nov 4 at 5:03 AM
A note: I’d define “rape culture” as follows:
1. the social, cultural, and political doctrines and dialogues which perpetuate cycles of victim-blaming and allow rape, directly or indirectly, to occur within the boundaries of the law and social order:
ex: positioning women as gatekeepers of men’s sexual urges, shaping masculinity to be aggressive and violent as well as driven by sexuality, holding women accountable for their own assaults through lines like, “she was asking for it.”
2. a culture in which rape is excused:
ex: “she said no, but he persisted…ah, boys will be boys.”
speaking of,
3. “boys will be boys.”
Questions? Campus climates are incredibly rape-prone because of the social focus on alcohol as central to social development, and the linked ideal of hookup culture as one that is based in coercion, “tricks,” and deviance.
neo-feminist
Nov 4 at 11:32 AM
Don’t feed the Trolls any more, ladies.
Alex Margolis
Nov 4 at 12:45 PM
Alejandro, rapists are crazed people. Evolution doesn’t seek to explain rare exceptions. However, there are explanations as to why rape is socially UNacceptable. 1. It is a natural crime, like stealing and murder. Early humans prohibited it. Rapists were out for themselves and thus a risk to the entire clan/group. 2. Think about a father’s take on his daughter’s new boyfriend. The dad usually isn’t welcoming the kid open arms. How do you think he’d feel if he raped her. Furthermore, in terms of passing down your genes, a father wouldn’t want his daughter mating with someone she didn’t want to. So in frank terms, rapists risked expulsion from the clan and nice beat-down from the girl’s father and his buddies.
Carmen, you’re at war with biology again. You say it’s wrong to be “Placing women as the gatekeepers of men’s sexual urges.” Women get to choose who they mate with as men generally have much different (lower) expectations. This is natural. Evolution happened because women got to choose between numerous men. If men had the same expectations of women, mating would be such a rare occurrence that the human species would be long extinct. In fact, I think many women enjoy the position they’re in of being able to turn down one man’s sex for another. Or being able to not have sex when the man wants.
“Being driven by sexuality” Again, it’s nature. Men have 8x as much testosterone as women. Forgive us if that makes our behavior somewhat different than a woman.
“Holding women accountable for their own assaults.“Is that the default response to rape? “She was asking for it.” Yes sometimes some women may be foolish in acting a certain way, but it by no means excuses rape. Furthermore, how can you say that is an example of the entire culture.
culture where rape is excused???? OK, this is getting ridiculous. Are you talking about Saudi Arabia, maybe Sudan? You cannot say we live in a “rape culture” because of what a few people do/think. Do we live in a “militantly-racist culture” because of the KKK? Nearly everyone in our culture condemns rape. Was nazi germany a “jewish culture?” Hey I mean even though most of the population and government condemned jews, there were still some jews in the country.
Oh god and the college-alcohol-rape thesis. I’m sure you’re of the mindset that if a girl has one drink, has sex and then regrets it, it’s acceptable to call rape.
Laserjet Printer
Nov 4 at 12:53 PM
“Rape culture” is what you make it to be. It’s more about individual choice and control if you want to stay out of this culture. For instance, if women are afraid of being rape-prone, then DON’T attend the parties or drink alcohol. Make BETTER friends and sober decisions ahead of time. You can choose to hook-up with a guy or not, it’s really fucking easy, but of course, not as easy if you had like 10 shots and passed out on the couch. That’s your own decision for drinking too much and getting to that point where you’re drunk or passed out. This constant hate-mongering and blaming on men is nonsensical, because men are not the cause of all your problems. If women keep thinking they are inferior to men, then that’s how it’s going to be. On the campus where there are more women students then men, that’s sad. Women just complain too much about the lack of rights they have when they have the same amount of liberties as men.
Kathryn B
Nov 4 at 1:19 PM
“Laserjet printer’s” response is an example of the subtle victim-blaming that does go in today’s society and is part of… yes, a “rape culture”. A woman does not get raped because she has too many drinks, walks down a dark alley alone at night, wears a short skirt, or accepts a ride home with a friend of a friend. A woman gets raped because of the presence of a rapist. Argument’s like Laserjet’s focus the attention on the victim’s actions and thereby deflect blame from the real problem—the person/people comitting the rape.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 1:37 PM
How come nobody ever gets upset when a man has sex and regrets it, or feels pressured because of teenage machodom to lose his virginity when he’s not ready? (Masculinity is not the same as machodom, by the way.)
And yes, there is such a thing as “asking for it.” Does that excuse the act? Absolutely not. But I have little sympathy for people who go to EI parties, drink the jungle juice, and end up regretting having drunken sex. Sex that one regrets having is not rape.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 1:42 PM
The problem, Kathryn B, is that while I agree with you, people like you always tend to look at every man in existence as a potential rapist. This is the mindset that makes people like Leah ask for “male allies,” rather than assuming that men are on their side. Men are your allies; men—especially conservative men—stand strongest against rape, battery, and abuse in the country, if you ask me. Those of us who oppose the initiation of force, those of us who stand for law-and-order—we’re the ones who should be seen as on the side of abused women.
It’s liberal judges who let people like Chris Brown off easy after he beat Rihanna. It’s liberal judges who let John Couey off easy when he raped little Jessica Lunsford. Wanna stop rape? Support law and order.
JJ
Nov 4 at 2:44 PM
Hehe Ken
JJ
Nov 4 at 2:59 PM
Also Kathryn B. while of course the Rapist makes the decision to rape, you cannot possibly argue that a girl does not have some control over her risk factors. In fact what laserjet seemed to be getting at is that she in fact has a lot of control over such factors and people should take more responsibility for themselves.
Neo-feminist Alumna
Nov 4 at 3:41 PM
Kathryn B, Carmen, Kim, & friends - you are doing an excellent job replying to these unfortunate people. Their inability to understand makes me giggle incredulously. I am so pleased that there are such intelligent, calm women in the feminist movement at AU.
That said, its probably time to stop feeding the trolls. I’m sure you have better things to do - like educating people who will listen about the need for a WRC on campus!
Alex Margolis
Nov 4 at 3:58 PM
Neo-feminist alumna, calling the opposition “trolls” and “unfortunate people.” The best you can do is use the straw man?
JS
Nov 4 at 4:56 PM
JJ. Alex Knepper.
1. There is no such thing as “asking to be raped.” Check your definition of “rape.”
2. Surprisingly enough, the best way to not get raped isn’t to stay in, it’s to not be around a rapist.
Carmen
Nov 4 at 4:58 PM
Oh, no no no. I am absolutely not engaging in a discussion of whether or not women should “take responsibility” for ending rape by excluding themselves from college social functions THAT MEN CAN ATTEND WITHOUT FEELING ENDANGERED AT. I am absolutely not engaging in a discussion of whether or not telling women they can stop assaults against them is valid. I am absolutely not engaging in a discussion of whether or not allowing Americans to place the responsibility for ending a crime AGAINST women in women’s hands is appropriate.
Women cannot stop a rapist from raping them. They could give up all the beer in the world, wear long skirts and loose jeans every day, and stay inside of their rooms. This would not stop rapists from raping them. They could take the safe route home, pass on walking in the dark (I’m glad working women in cities should leave early to catch the sunset), and carry tasers, mace, and pepper spray, and that would not stop rapists from raping them.
If you want to engage in a discussion- a valid, authentic, genuine, discussion- about women, rape, and the fact that men who bystand are NOT allies, men who laugh at rape jokes and strategize to get women drunk and then ask them for sex are NOT allies, and that rapists are not always strangers in the bushes, and are not always punished, and are excused by the FALSE mentality that men are somehow “sexually driven” and can’t control their own “urges” for power, domination, and control, THAT is a discussion I can engage in. I will not humor offensive victim-blaming, traditionalism, and the laughable claim that the justice system is at the helm of ending rape.
Question?
Nov 4 at 5:08 PM
Dear Neo-feminist Alumna:
I applaud your standing up for womyn (please don’t use the sexist spelling of women) However, if you care that much why don’t you donate money to AU to help fund these? Why not (shudder) put your money where your mouth is?
Or do you only care about womyn’s rights when it doesn’t cost *you* anything?
Just join Phyllis Schlafly and save me your hypocrisy.
Unattended Laptop
Nov 4 at 5:11 PM
Here, actually, men are the only ones that are intelligent enough to look at both perspectives of the discussion. Women relentlessly attack men using their emotions and one-sided opinions.
Carmen
Nov 4 at 5:21 PM
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html
-A def of rape culture.
Robert Ruszczyk
Nov 4 at 5:22 PM
I think we’re losing perspective of this argument, that this resource center is not needed and it’s a waste of $57,000 of our tuition dollars that can be spent elsewhere.
Common Sense
Nov 4 at 5:30 PM
Carmen, reading your definition of rape culture, I don’t see how that applies to the American University campus. There is no where on campus that encourages male sexual aggression in a way that supports violence against women. If you know of a place, then you’re just hanging out with the wrong crowd-because I don’t. Moreover there is no continuum of threatened violence that even expands to sexual remarks and touching. Look at the 2009 Public Safety report (https://www.american.edu/finance/publicsafety/upload/ASR_2009.pdf), there’s almost no cases involving sexual conduct or forceable sex offenses. In addition, here at AU, just to make sure you’re on the right campus, we don’t treat rape as “a compliment.” We don’t use rape as terrorism, and I bet most girls don’t think that they will be sexually assaulted walking through campus.
You’re completely delusional Carmen.
Nonetheless, I agree with Robert. The point is that the Women’s Resource Center is not needed; we have all the services already that WRC would provide from Public Safety and Counseling Services.
Kim Loewen
Nov 4 at 6:17 PM
Hahaha! Common Sense: really? Because Public Safety doesn’t report it, there’s no sexual harassment on campus? Really? That’s the best argument you could come up with? I’m sorry, but that’s just funny. You actually think that every single woman on campus, every single time (often several times a day) they experience sexual harassment are going to go report it to Public Safety? That’s hilarious! It happens too often! To too many people! If you really want to be informed about the experience of sexual harassment on campus, ask women, not the Public Safety report. And also, beyond just the under reporting, Public Safety wouldn’t even have any jurisdiction over sexual harassment which occurs at off campus parties or any other off campus AU event.
Then...
Nov 4 at 6:51 PM
Then don’t go to off-campus parties. Sorry, I should’ve clarified the clear problems with official crime reports. The disadvantages of leaving campus is that you won’t be protected by Public Safety and that in itself exempts you from university services.
Kim Loewen
Nov 4 at 7:01 PM
I’m not saying that Public Safety should have jurisdiction off campus. I was merely stating that Public Safety stats don’t really give you much, if any, indication of the actual environment on campus or of AU students in general. So to use Public Safety stats as an argument that AU doesn’t have a rape culture isn’t valid.
JJ
Nov 4 at 7:21 PM
Lol who said not going to social functions? There is such a thing as personal responsibility.
Alex Margolis
Nov 4 at 8:00 PM
I like how these pro-WRC people here talk as if they are the elected leaders of the United States of Women. They are the voices of the women at AU, all whom cannot speak for themselves. Of course I am being sarcastic here. How do these people know what the “actual environment on campus or of AU students in general” is like??? Their argument is based on the assumption (not fact) that women at AU are sexually harassed far too often but are too afraid to do anything about it.
Also, girls being sexually harassed (possibly “several times a day”) is not a reason for a $120,000 women’s resource center. People are harassed for all sorts of reasons, their religion, physical appearance, intelligence, sexual preferences etc etc. Is some sort of counseling sometimes necessary? Of course. Are women victim of sexist-related harassment more severely than anyone else at AU? To a point that warrants taking away a few scholarships for less fortunate students? Absolutely not.
Advocates of the WRC should acknowledge that some kids will not be able to attend college because the WRC was deemed more important.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 8:55 PM
There really is such a thing as asking for it. It doesn’t make it right, but there’s such a thing as a risk factor.
If you walk down a dark alley in an inner city at night and end up getting shot, you’re a damned fool and you were asking for it. Same thing happens if you’re a cute college girl who goes to an EI party and drinks the jungle juice. In neither case does it make it “right,” but only the willfully obtuse could claim that the person wasn’t asking for it. Magic incantations of “blaming the victim!” can’t change that.
Em
Nov 4 at 8:56 PM
“people are harassed for all sorts of reasons, their religion, physical appearance, intelligence, sexual preference etc”
Yes, and in those cases, you can turn to professional religious chaplains, academic support counselors, and the GLBTA resource center, all of which the university funds and staffs.
Also, taking away money from scholarships?! Bullshit.
This money isn’t coming out of your scholarship nor did the university make the decision to create a WRC in lieu of handing out two more scholarships.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 8:58 PM
Yeah, I’m failing to see the logic here. “Women make less than men overall, therefore we need a resource center with pins, books, and positive messages.” Huh?
If we applied that logic across the board to every group, we’d probably have fifty or sixty resource centers.
neo-feminist
Nov 4 at 9:00 PM
Alex M,
1) you do not know what the term “straw man” means. please stop using it incorrectly, because that is, in itself, a straw man argument (which is very funny for us, but probably not for you, you trolling, unfortunate person).
2) you then set up your own straw man, saying that “some kids will not be able to attend college because the WRC was deemed more important.” it really just means that those students will not be able to attend college at AU. i highly doubt that our private university is their only shot.
3) if the studies on the effect of specialized resource centers on retention rates hold true on our campus, the WRC may increase the number of students who actually graduate from AU.
and finally, to the questioner:
how do you know the alumni supporters of the WRC *aren’t* donating money to an account specifically earmarked for exactly this purpose? (we’re way more organized than you give us credit for - and any good political science student learns early that money talks louder than anything else) but as we explained when we were students - it is not OUR responsibility to provide these services to the student body, it is the responsibility of the administration. once they demonstrate a commitment to doing so, we will be happy to support their efforts. but we’re not idiots who are just going to throw money down a black hole when there are plenty of other causes equally worthy of our money with established programs.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 9:02 PM
“Yes, and in those cases, you can turn to professional religious chaplains, academic support counselors, and the GLBTA resource center, all of which the university funds and staffs.”
Or you can just fucking suck it up and quit being a little bitch. Whip out your copy of Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations or the Discourses of Epictetus and have at it.
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 9:03 PM
When do we get a Republican Resource Center? We have a “Social Justice” one, and the GOP is clearly an oppressed minority on campus.
alex = troll
Nov 4 at 9:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Don’t feed the trolls!
Alex Knepper
Nov 4 at 9:09 PM
How is feminism not on-topic?
Alex Margolis
Nov 4 at 9:24 PM
Em,
Personally, I think there are times when people should suck it up. Metropolitan areas in the northeast US are some of the most liberal and tolerant areas of the world. But if someone does need counseling, we don’t need all these different centers for every different social group.
Creating the WRC would take $120,000 out of the schools coffers. Yes, that money may not go directly to scholarships. However, one thing we can know for sure is that the 120k that goes to the WRC is 120k that will not be going to kids who need it to pay for school.
Neo feminist, yes a kid might be able to go to another school. Probably one in his/her own state. However AU may be the most prestigious school offering the scholarship and one that offers him/her many more opportunities.
About donations to the school for the WRC. If donors have in fact donated the entire cost for the center, I will shut my mouth about the cost of it. I still don’t think the WRC is necessary but who am I to care if someone else is paying for it. Neo feminist, is it fact true that donors have donated $120k specifically for the creation of such a center?
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