To the amazement of its authors and their editors, an Eagle column this week sparked campus-wide controversy and prompted public pushback. Outraged students debated the piece in their classes. Campus organizations issued official statements of criticism. Simply put, people were peeved. The column in question, “‘Sex’-perimentation defines Welcome Week,” ran last issue in our Scene section. It was certainly provocative. Most sex columns are. But the piece did not warrant the criticism it has received.
Two campus groups have claimed the column describes a rape sequence. The first was Women’s Initiative. In a letter to the editor printed below, the group’s director, Sarah Brown, makes the argument that the column’s author’s “normalize sexual assault.” She says the piece “places the responsibility of stopping sexual assault on women.” AU Students For Choice made similar claims this week. In an e-mail to 221 recipients, co-directors K. Travis Ballie and Jenny Burke called the column “alarming” and wrote that it describes “an explicit rape.”
The column describes nothing of the sort. In its opening passage, a girl is having a drunken hook-up with a random guy. She may be making a bad decision, but she is not being assaulted. Any ambiguity about this point disappears in the next paragraph. The girl wakes up, and she realizes the guy wants to cuddle with her. All of a sudden, she starts thinking that maybe her one-night stand could turn into something more. The column’s authors then go on to argue that hook-ups do not turn into serious relationships.
But that is beside the point.
For better or worse, many drunken hook-ups on this campus are completely consensual. Women’s Initiative knows it. AU Students For Choice knows it. Sometimes, people get drunk intending to hook-up! The authors of “‘Sex’-perimentation defines Welcome Week,” simply tried to talk openly and frankly about a fairly common situation. The Scene section’s editorial staff, which is comprised entirely of women, reviewed and approved the piece before it went to print. They thought it was fine. And it was fine.
The editors of The Eagle know rape is horrific. This newspaper sees sexual assault as a serious problem worthy of serious coverage. The editorial page always welcomes editorials and letters to the editor on these issues. The news section will continue to cover stories related to them, including the activism of Women’s Initiative and AU Students For Choice. Above all, The Eagle would never discuss a topic as serious as rape and sexual assault in a way that brings levity to the situation. The column was laden with tongue-and-cheek lines that we would never associate with such an important topic.
These groups are right to rush to the defense of rape victims. They should speak out against assault. But their knee-jerk reaction to one paragraph, which was seemingly taken out of context, in a harmless sex column undermines their larger causes. Baseless charges and unwarranted outrage make these groups look silly. On issues as serious as rape and sexual assault, they should know better than to cry wolf.
35 Comments
Alex
Sep 3 at 12:49 AM
Agreed. The directors of those organizations complaining is just yet another example of student groups loving to hear themselves speak. Rape? Are you kidding me? Anyone who really thinks that situation is rape needs to brush up on their knowledge of the laws and our culture. However, we shouldn’t be surprised. Many students in positions of power at AU love hearing themselves speak and thinking they’re more important than they really are. For example, the SG is spending hours and hours impeaching and working to convict someone. Step of your pedestal, stop playing “I’m a US Senator” and instead, do something to help the school. How about a straight A student who needs money or a soldier coming back from Iraq who could use some cash for tuition. Sorry for the rant but it’s time for people to get real.
Jess
Sep 3 at 1:01 AM
I understand that the Eagle’s staff did not view this situation as sexual assault, however, I feel that to be dismissive of the wide range of students on this campus (extending beyond these organizations) who were troubled by this portrayal, and whom did see problems here is a mistake. Some students who experience this situation may not term it sexual assault; some may come to view it as sexual assault at a later time; and some would view it as sexual assault when it happened. I think that to assume that because something is common is it is ok is not logical. Instead of being dismissive of concerns, I would have hoped that the Eagle would have taken this opportunity to call for greater dialogue (on campus and off) about the meaning of consent.
anonymous
Sep 3 at 6:43 AM
Where are the letters? Shouldn’t they be posted somewhere?
Vanessa
Sep 3 at 7:14 AM
This editorial shows just how completely the Eagle staff has missed the point on this one.
First, to assume that because women reviewed the article somehow makes it more “okay” than if approved by men is ridiculous. This defense is a weak and sexist straw man, and the men of AU should be insulted by the Eagle staff’s insinuation that they are any less capable of determining what is or is not appropriate.
Second, the editorial dismisses the concerns raised in the letters as “baseless” when the letter from WI raises more than just the issue of consent - it also complains about the reinforcement of standard gender responsibilities and the exclusion of the LGBT community from the discussion. You may dismiss that one charge as “baseless,” however, you did not respond to the others.
Finally, this editorial does not take into account that there are women and men who, unlike the woman in the column, wake up after a night like this and DO feel violated. This editorial further marginalizes them and their experiences by essentially saying, “don’t worry about it, everyone does it, this has happened to everyone.” It also tells women and men who are the aggressor that their behavior is acceptable, when they should realize their partner is too drunk to give consent. I would hope that you did not realize you were sending this message with your column and now your editorial.
But you were. And to remain silent on this issue and let you tell the student body of AU that this type of behavior is not only acceptable but normal, would be the true way to “undermine their causes.” I’m glad Ms. Brown said something, and I’m glad she provided resources to survivors who are struggling with these issues (the Office of Campus Life has sexual assault resources available at http://www.american.edu/sexualassault, and the DC Rape Crisis center can be reached 24/7 at (202) 333-7273). It’s just a shame they were buried on the opinion page.
Jennifer
Sep 3 at 8:36 AM
The largest problem I see with this article is its decision to “normalize” intoxicated hook-ups. To the person who said to review laws, you should do the same. The law states that consent can not occur if there is intoxication with either party in an encounter. Therefore, no matter how common or “OK” people state these situations are, they are technically not. Whether a person chooses to acknowledge that is personal, however by reading this article someone can easily get the impression that because they were drunk they couldn’t have been sexually assaulted or raped. The most common date rape drug IS alcohol and at least 50 percent, if not more, of sexual assaults involve alcoholic consumption by one or both parties. Therefore, to dismiss the comments and concerns voiced by so many as an overreaction is irresponsible and unfair to the campus community. It is dismissing the possibility that people can feel that they were violated by a drunken one night stand. It only takes an individual saying no once to justify stopping an act, and no amount of alcohol can change that standard. No longer having the ability to consent is not something to be dismissed, it is something to be discussed and respected as a legitimate concern.
JoAnna
Sep 3 at 8:52 AM
SmithWhile Sarah Brown’s LTE is hard to find on the Eagle site, I don’t think that she makes the point that every situation like this one is absolutely rape. Instead, I think she is just citing DC law that states that if someone is so intoxicated that they cannot consent (meaning that they would not be able to sign legal papers/get a tattoo/etc becuase they were so drunk), that is considered second degree rape. We have to consider the possibility that a drunken hook up might actually feel like violation to someone and can’t just be laughed off as a “rite-of-passage” as the Eagle does in both the origional article, and in the most recent one. I think just aknowledging that fact might bring us to some sort of understanding on this issue.
Alex
Sep 3 at 10:49 AM
Do you not understand what it means to live in a free society? First, it is not the Eagle’s job to provide support for people, gay or straight, who may have regretted hooking up with someone. A newspaper is supposed to provide the news, not set the standard for proper and ethical socializing. Secondly, what does it mean for someone to feel violated? That they were physically raped? Or that they got drunk and hooked up with someone they thought was more attractive than they really were. Or is it somewhere in between. Whatever it is, simply feeling “violated” alone does not necessarily mean you were a victim. If you drink at night, expect to make some poor decisions. If you are tired of feeling “violated” the next morning, don’t drink as much. It is a matter of personal responsibility. Please don’t interpret this as me trying to justify rape.
The other day I read a letter in the Washington Post. The author criticized Mayor Fenty for saying something like “AIDS is a problem for all of us.” The author said that simply isn’t true as AIDS isn’t a problem for people who take steps to protect themselves. How this relates? If you have the option to stop something and you decide not to, don’t expect to be treated as a helpless victim. You are the one most capable of helping yourself.
Alex
Sep 3 at 10:53 AM
*Meant to include this in previous post*
In a free society, you have the freedom to make choices for yourself, however it also means you must personally take responsibility for those choices.
Bettina
Sep 3 at 11:38 AM
To deny that college students are allowed to and expected to make their own mistakes would be naïve. I drank too much, and got hangovers. I stayed up to late, missed morning classes, and failed a course. My choices led to those mistakes, and I took responsibility. Still, my mistakes rarely or minimally affected others, and certainly did not hurt anyone. Should they have, my responsibility would have extended into the jurisdiction of the law. If two drunken people get in a fight, theyââ¬â¢ve still committed battery. If some robs me while I am drunk, they are still a thief. Even if a crime is committed against someone because they are in a susceptible state (which may mean intoxicated, but also means mentally or physically disabled), the law still protects their rights, and those crimes are still absolutely wrong.
Itââ¬â¢s already been cited that a drunk person cannot legally consent to sexââ¬âthis should be common knowledge, and is indisputable. Therefore, itââ¬â¢s also fact that this article painted a picture of a form of non-consensual sex, and therefore rape. Iââ¬â¢ve known too many women experience a scenario so similar to the one beginning the original article, and so few of those women took action on the wrong-doings committed against them. The idea that because it happens often means it is ok is ridiculous. Everyone loves to mention the ââ¬Åstatisticââ¬Â that there is one murder a day in the DC Metro areaââ¬âbut Iââ¬â¢m sure the Eagle wouldnââ¬â¢t defend those killings as being ok, since, you know, it happens to so many people. Just the same as murder is illegal, so is non-consensual sex.
The glib reactions like those of your writers, staff, and editors are the attitudes that keep so many women and men from seeking help and justice for acquaintance rape. No, the role of media is not inherently to advocate, but it is to provide information. You are doing a huge disservice and both a student organization and a media outlet by denying the misinformation that your article presents. It is nothing less than appalling that the unsigned editorial staff has chosen to stand by this article and demean students and student groups alike rather than issuing an apology and re-write of the article.
The Eagle should know that most sexual assaults committed on college campuses are acquaintance or date rape. To then refer to feedback on their tasteless article as a ââ¬Åknee-jerk reactionââ¬Â which ââ¬Åundermines their larger causesââ¬Â is uneducated, ignorant, inaccurate, and of courseââ¬âthough obviously unimportantly to the Eagleââ¬âinsensitive. Iââ¬â¢d love for the Eagle to attempt to defend the claim that advocating for the prevention and survivors of date rape is not considered a ââ¬Ålarger cause,ââ¬Â not to mention all the legal points mentioned.
food4thought
Sep 3 at 12:19 PM
If she was on top, and the male is intoxicated, is the guy being raped?
Ashley
Sep 3 at 12:35 PM
Victim blaming is defined by wikipedia to be: “holding the victims of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment to be entirely or partially responsible for the incident. Victim blaming is infamously expressed in arguments like “a raped woman in a short skirt was asking for it”.
See also: Alex’s comments on this terribly misguided editorial.
After all, by his reasoning, if she drank too much, she had it coming, right?
Jay
Sep 3 at 1:01 PM
Eagle staff-
Good sex column. Keep it up. I agreed with your editorial 110%. The paragraph in question has been taken out of context. The thrust (no pun intended) of the article, encouraging AU students to not rush into a relationship, could not have been clearer. I honestly and respectfully wonder how, once taken in full context, anyone could interpret the events described in the first paragraph as a rape. I mean, if this hypothetical woman was violated, would she really be hypothetically considering a relationship with her hypothetical cuddle-buddy?
Sarah
Sep 3 at 1:55 PM
While I think it’s important to promote and provide information about victims’ rights, I also think that the attack on this article is just too fierce. If we call every drunken hook up rape, it cheapens the word. The Eagle staff didn’t say that women who are raped while drunk have no basis for claiming that they did not consent to the sex; instead they said that drunkenness doesn’t necessarily mean rape. I, not being versed in the law, can’t say whether or not this is legally true, but morally, I don’t believe that two people who are old enough to make the decision to become intoxicated to a certain degree would be engaged in an act of rape if they chose to have sex in that state.
It seems to me, also, that there is very little mention of the male, besides from food4thought. If it had been a frat guy depicted regretting the night he slept with that chick from his math class, would we be condemning her?
Lastly, whether or not this article accomplished its original objectives, it has helped the paper - and the school - in one way. Look how many people have now read and responded to this article! Greater readership would be a positive on both sides because it would allow for greater participation of students in their university’s paper, which could ultimately lead to better representation of each student’s wants and needs on campus.
Alex
Sep 3 at 6:34 PM
Ashley, you are misinterpreting my point. I’m not suggesting it is OK for someone to take advantage of someone who is “drunk”
(The reason I put drunk in quotes is because it’s a vague term. Does it mean one drink, 4, 10? Measured in BAC? Something else?)
In terms of personal responsibility, let me use this example to clarify. If you drink, then drive and kill someone, you are guilty of murder. The fact that you were drunk and thus made a poor decision is not a defense. You made the decision to drink and must accept the consequences that follow. Let me relate this back to the point. If you go to a bar, party etc and you decide to drink, you must acknowledge to yourself a number of consequences, including obvious things such as blurred vision, increased urination and a weakened immune system. And less obvious things such as decreased inhibitions, less appreciation for consequences, thinking people are more attractive than they really are etc.
Now if someone is very clearly wasted, it would be wrong for someone to have sex with them. But it’s not always as clear as this. Human beings are not breathalyzers. You cannot expect someone to know precisely when to stop hitting on someone else. So if you go to a bar, a venue where finding a partner is a primary objective for many, you have to understand that a guy (and even a girl too) lacks the ability to see exactly how drunk you are. When you say yes (in a reasonably sober fashion) to going home with him, it’s unfair to him to wake up the next day and call him a rapist or something similar. The same way you accept the consequences of drinking and driving, you must also accept the consequences and drinking and talking to people who may not always be able to tell how drunk you really are.
That is also just the legal aspect of it. Someone can be a victim, but also be plain stupid. Take the example of the girl wearing a shirt skirt who gets raped. The tale usually involves her walking alone in an empty, dangerous, and poorly lit part of a city late at night. If she were to get mugged and raped, she would absolutely be a victim and her attacker should be sent to prison for 25-plus years. However, would it be wrong to say she was very very foolish? I don’t think so. But do I think her attacker was justified? Absolutely not.
JS
Sep 3 at 11:02 PM
Alex, this is a side note but one I have to point it out.
“A newspaper is supposed to provide the news, not set the standard for proper and ethical socializing.”
It seems you make this argument in order to support the Eagle. But the editorial in question was giving explicit advice on how women (specifically, heterosexual women) should engage in “real” relationships (indicating it has already made assumptions about what defines a real relationship).If that is not setting a standard for proper ethical socializing, then I don’t know what is.
All other protests aside, (which the people here have done a wonderful job of voicing) this is also just a joke article. There are ways to talk about relationships and sex without generalizing the sexual/romantic experiences of all college women. Otherwise, this person might has well have been writing for Cosmo.
Alex Knepper
Sep 3 at 11:22 PM
Hahaha asking feminists to stop crying wolf on rape is like asking bin Laden to stop crying wolf about American aggression. Get used to it, fellow Eagle staffers: every time a woman regrets having sex, it’s rape to these people. The rules are these: the woman is always the victim, the man is always the bad guy. Get used to it.
Alex Knepper
Sep 3 at 11:25 PM
More serious points:
1) Is it possible for a man to be raped? What if he’s drunk and she’s not? Might a man regret hooking up?
2) If it is impossible to consent while drunk, don’t we have a massive rape epidemic amongst both males and females? (Wouldn’t a great solution be to just stay sober?)
3) If a woman says yes while she’s drunk, should the man have a breathalyzer on hand to make sure she’s telling the truth? Or is a person’s word no longer good enough?
4) If a feminist cries rape about dumb, drunken consensual sex at college and no one cares, is it still rape? (A: No.)
5) Why isn’t there a Men’s Initiative, anyway?
Alex Knepper
Sep 3 at 11:28 PM
Feminists just hate the free society. The essence of modern liberalism is the hatred of freedom, the hatred of the fact that people might actually make mistakes. Having dumb, drunken sex is stupid. Yeah, so it is. Get over it. It’s not rape. It’s just a mistake.
It just recalls the HL Mencken quote: Most people don’t want to be free. They want to be safe.
Alex
Sep 4 at 12:46 AM
Great points Alex Knepper.
I like how you brought up the issue of what it means to live in a free society. Freedom isn’t as simple as being allowed to protest the Republican Party and war in Iraq. There are costs that come with living in a free society. One is that you do not have the right to not be offended. Another cost is no guarantee of safety, including with rape. Want to go out to a public place and have drinks with friends? Guess what, a guy might try to hit on you. Hey, I know a great way to decrease rape. Let’s make it illegal for people to have sex when there is alcohol present. Then all sex would follow only a fully sober “yes.” However, there is a name for this kind of lifestyle, one where someone else tells two people when they can and cannot do things they want to do. It’s called slavery.
Like the above quote, “Most people donââ¬â¢t want to be free. They want to be safe.” So make new rules about sex, just understand you’re giving up freedom in exchange.
M
Sep 4 at 8:09 AM
I don’t think anyone is saying that all drunk sex is rape. I’d like to point out that in the context of the article, the situation is not rape, as the woman in question doesn’t feel that way. HOWEVER, judging by her depiction in the article - she barely even knows what’s going on - this could easily be considered rape. Everyone seems to be assuming that she did, in fact, say yes, but judging by the level of drunkenness depicted in the article, it doesn’t seem likely. I would argue that if you ask someone who’s drunk if they want to have sex and they say yes, that would be consent (although legally I don’t think it would necessarily be considered as such). However, if you ask someone if they want to have sex and they fall over, that is NOT consent, and if you are so drunk that you’re unable to give consent, then it is RAPE. Just like if someone’s been roofie’d and is incapable of responding.
And yes, if a guy is too drunk to consent and a girl has sex with him, that’s rape, too, as long as he sees it that way. This is less likely to happen, though, because she’d have to get him to get it up, and if he’s that drunk, that might be kind of difficult…
SG
Sep 4 at 8:52 AM
Even your defense is questionable.
“For better or worse, many drunken hook-ups on this campus are completely consensual.”
I would hope ANY hook-up (drunken or not) would be consensual.
J
Sep 4 at 10:01 AM
I think it is important to note that drunken consensual hook ups and sometimes more do happen. If you have ever been to a party 90% of the time both parties are intoxicated when this actually occurs. It is sexist to place the onus of blame upon the man, because the girl wakes up the next morning and regrets her decision. Which is what often happens. Both of them we can presume are reasonable and rational adults who made the decision to get drunk. If they choose to engage in a sexual act, it strikes me as wildly absurd for either of them to be able to claim sexual assault due to regret from the night before.
For the man and the woman the alternative is to not get drunk.
This is obviously not condoning unwilling/nonconsent, which is always wrong 100% of the time. However there is a logical distinction between taking advantage of someone who is drunk, and both parties being drunk and consenually (even if drunkenly) engaging in such an act.
Neither of them should get to cry foul because they made the decision to get drunk the night before.
anon
Sep 4 at 11:06 AM
I would never say the article showed a rape scene - this article just showed a lack of life experience and judgment in terms of the authors. They did not give girls at AU any credit - they probably just heard of that happening a few times and assumed it happened to everyone. Next time, try not to be so condescending.
Jen
Sep 4 at 9:40 PM
I think it’s important to note that you all are getting bent out of shape about fictional characters.
Worried about the finite details of rape? Good for you. Get out there and actually do something about it. Don’t sit behind your computer screen and point fingers.
According to Google, someone is raped every 45 seconds. Now, think about how long it took you to write your post.
My point exactly.
Liz
Sep 5 at 5:16 PM
I would like to clarify a couple of things. I don’t think anyone here is disputing that drunken one-night stands happen, nor that they happen at AU. We, I think, would also all agree that freshman, in particular, can get in over their heads. However, there are a number of issues that need to be addressed about this article. First, I would like to clarify that no one is saying that intoxicated people don’t have consensual sex. What we’re saying is that if a girl (or a guy) is so drunk that they are unable to understand what is happening, that they CANNOT consent. Just like a roofied rape victim can’t consent, even if she does say yes to her drugger/rapist. The mental capacity to understand what is happening and to understand what will happen and the consequences of those actions doesn’t exist. The person can’t say “yes” even if she does say the word, because she CAN’T understand what is happening.
However, whether or not this is rape is an important issue to understand. DC law states that a person can’t consent if there are intoxicated. So whether or not you think this is rape, legally, if the girl (or guy) decides to press charges, the guy (or girl) could and would be prosecuted for rape.
There are also a number of other problems with this article. Now, Alex and Alex, this is going to sound like some sort of, oh, you know, FEMINIST, critique of the article, so start preparing your misogynistic responses now. Be sure to see how many times you can bring in the mostly irrelevant point of being in a free society, too.
First of all, this article promotes and exacerbates idiotic gender stereotypes. The idea that a girl should attract herself a man (note, the article makes no mention of non-hetero relationships—but perhaps that’s a blessing. I shudder to think what kind of advice they may have given there), by acting like women in the movies is outrageous, and insults the intelligence of every woman and man at AU. We should be flicking our hair, laughing stupidly at dumb jokes, and behaving otherwise like babbling idiots. Really? THAT’S how you are supposed to build a lasting relationship? The idea that a guy couldn’t possibly find a girl physically attractive and want to get her know her as a person, too, insults the men of this university, and it objectifies the women. The article also tells women that we should be teases. Do everything BUT have sex. We should only do this, and it’s only okay to need to “slow the guy down” because it “adds to your mystique.” There’s no mention that any girl might want to slow the guy down for a reason other than to string him along with the hope of shanghai-ing him into a relationship. The idea that a girl’s sexuality serves only be used to create “mystique” and land herself a boyfriend is ridiculous, insulting, rude, and just plain stupid.
Additionally, the completely missed a chance to talk about behavior and consequences here. They make no mention of condoms and contraceptives except to inform us that for the next drunken hookup, you should “contain your clown” in order to “avoid a frown.” Instead of talking about the importance of using condoms if you do engage in one-nighters, the authors focus on the use of Plan B. I have no problem with Plan B; I think it’s an important medication that needs to be available to women if they need it. But the authors instead choose focus their coverage of Plan B to making sure you don’t charge it to Mommy’s credit card so she doesn’t find out rather than addressing the question of why the person would be needing Plan B in the first place (i.e. didn’t use a condom because they were too drunk to remember contraception—another sign this may have been a rape situation. And yes, I know condoms break, and that’s why Plan B rocks, but that was hardly the situation being described here).
Also, this was just plain old bad journalism. The writing was questionable, and the opening anecdote was crass, and greatly contributed to why most of us “feminists” thought this article depicted a situation that could very easily be rape. Unless it’s an article about passing a kidney stone, starting with “Itââ¬â¢s three in the morning. You have it inside you right now. It kind of hurts” is irresponsible, crude, and a cheap way to gain readers through pure shock value.
This campus is in need of frank, open discussion about sexuality, those drunken hookups, how to stay safe and STI-free, and how to really form lasting, grounded, genuine relationships. But that article wasn’t it. It was poorly written, full of stereotypes and bad advise, and it read more like the authors’ attempts to assuage their own guilt over their drunken welcome week hookups (“we’ve all been there?” No, we haven’t).
Eagle staff and editors, I think you generally do a good job with the paper, and your sex column has, in the past, been quite good, responsible, accurate, amusing, and fun. But you just missed the mark here, and there’s nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake. In fact, I think a lot of us would respect you for it.
Alex
Sep 6 at 1:16 AM
Based on the comments here, it seems that many people feel that they are qualified to tell other people (mainly girls) what’s stupid and what’s not when it comes to relationships.
The Eagle should apologize for that article because it addressed a social issue in a different way than you see it?
Also, speaking of qualified to say things…This talk about DC law? Can you point to the exact law that says this? Can you define intoxicated for me, or at least copy and paste the definition that’s stated in DC’s code? Or are you saying this based on rumor and what you’ve heard from friends? Furthermore, “... the guy (or girl) could and would be prosecuted for rape.” You’re that knowledgeable about DC law that you can confidently say when someone “could AND WOULD be prosecuted?”
Liz, if you are an ADA in DC or any lawyer within the DC bar, I apologize. Otherwise, I can’t help but suspect that you are saying things that you’re unqualified to say. Making these broad (and possible baseless) claims doesn’t help create the “frank, open discussion about sexuality…” that you ask for.
Alex
Sep 6 at 7:21 PM
Should have included this before. I don’t see how this school needs a discussion about sexuality and relationships. Sex and relationships are personal issues. People make their own choices about them. In fact, what makes relationships and sex great, is that they’re so personal. That type of bond between two people is unseen anywhere else. By having a school-wide discussion about it, it sets certain standards and “rules” pertaining to sex and relationships. We aren’t kids in a middle school health class. We don’t need other people telling us what’s right and wrong when it comes to finding a drunken hookup, spouse, and everything in between.
The same way how I don’t see it’s appropriate for the government to decide who can marry and who cannot, I don’t see how it’s acceptable for other students to make similar decisions.
Liz
Sep 6 at 10:47 PM
First of all, I do not pretend to be a legal expert. Secondly, the rape argument was not the focus of my issue with the article, but, it’s all you zeroed in on.
Anyway, since you asked about DC rape law, here are the provisions for sexual assault in the second, third, and fourth degrees. The definitions of which include being unable to understand the actions (which intoxication can include).
DC Sexual Abuse Laws:
This could be second degree:
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=UUID(N2FE7A47095-DE11DB9BCF9-DAC28345A2A)&db=1000869&findtype=VQ&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID_FQRLT145901402269&rp;=/Search/default.wl&rs=WEBL9.08&service=Find&spa=DCC-1000&sr=TC&vr=2.0
It could also be third degree:
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=UUID(N30430AE095-DE11DB9BCF9-DAC28345A2A)&db=1000869&findtype=VQ&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID_FQRLT33798452269&rp;=/Search/default.wl&rs=WEBL9.08&service=Find&spa=DCC-1000&sr=TC&vr=2.0
At the very least, this could be fourth degree:
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=UUID(N306D764095-DE11DB9BCF9-DAC28345A2A)&db=1000869&findtype=VQ&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID_FQRLT5987418382269&rp;=/Search/default.wl&rs=WEBL9.08&service=Find&spa=DCC-1000&sr=TC&vr=2.0
Also, here’s info from a rape awareness and prevention center about intoxication and rape:
http://violenceunsilenced.com/wednesday-qa-is-it-rape-if-i-was-drunk/
I realize that neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, but there are the laws, and go ahead and construe them however you want. But keeping in mind that you told me I couldn’t possibly know the laws, please don’t come back at me saying “these laws don’t mean ____.” If I can’t understand as an undergrad, neither can you, unless you’re secretly a lawyer by night.
Alex
Sep 7 at 12:28 PM
The links to Westlaw won’t open. Perhaps you could copy and paste them differently?
The Violence Unsilenced site is interesting. It looks like it discusses whether or not a rapist can use the fact that he was drunk, as a defense to get a lesser charge. It concludes that he/she cannot. This brings us to an interesting point. (Before I continue, I would just like to make clear that I do not think being drunk is an excuse at all for raping someone. The same way being drunk is not an excuse for making the stupid decision to drive) Let’s look at a hypothetical situation. Bob meets Marry at a bar and they have sex. Both were drinking prior, but neither perceived the other one to be very drunk. So the next day, Marry feels she was taken advantage of because she was under the influence, calls the police, and now Bob is arrested. Bob cannot say “I was drunk, I couldn’t tell exactly how sober she was.” In other words, the fact that he was drunk is completely irrelevant. On the other hand, with Marry, the fact that she was drunk is the sole reason she can even have the case heard. So if your the “victim” you can be drunk, consent, then decide you regret it when you sober up. But if your the “rapist” you get drunk, ask someone if they’d like to have sex to which they respond yes, and then you go to prison for quite some time.
It isn’t fair that the “I was drunk” claim can only be used by one side. (Physical rape is a completely different story, I’m talking about about people meeting at a frat party, bar, club etc)
If a girl is drunk enough to say yes, is it not ridiculous to suggest that the guy may also be drunk enough to not realize exactly how drunk she is?
Jen
Sep 7 at 5:10 PM
Another day goes by where people spend hours writing comments about this stupid article.
Another day goes by where more and more people are getting raped every minute.
If you all claim to really want to protect women like you say you do, get off your asses, turn off your computers, and do something about it.
No one’s comment on this article is any more valid than anyone else’s comment. There are no people reading this that have, because of this article or its comments, decided not to rape someone else. Your time would be much better spent actually doing something about it.
Alas, I forgot. AU’s a very political school. All talk and no action. If you’re going to AU to learn how to be a politician, you’re in the perfect place. You’ll learn to talk the talk, which will get you far politically. But you won’t learn to walk the walk, which won’t get you very far in life.
The choice is up to you!
Alex Knepper
Sep 9 at 12:22 AM
“Another day goes by where people spend hours writing comments about this stupid article.”
Lol. Who, like you?
“Another day goes by where more and more people are getting raped every minute.”
Sorry, I’ll go traverse the seven continents looking for people about to get raped.
“If you all claim to really want to protect women like you say you do, get off your asses, turn off your computers, and do something about it.”
WTF? I can’t do anything about rape. It’s the savage who decides to rape someone’s fault, not mine. Ass. Goddamn feminists.
Alex
Sep 9 at 1:06 PM
Ha nice post Alex.
Jen, I agree with you about AU. A lot of people here are convinced they’ll be living in the White House. But what are you taking about “going to do something about it?” Sit at a table on the quad collecting signatures for something? Making colorful posters about rape and hanging them up around campus? Unfortunately, I cannot personally stop rape, the same way I can’t stop terrorism, kidnapping and murder.
Jason
Sep 9 at 3:08 PM
I love getting drunk and hooking up- best part of being in a frat, and especially going to mixers. RUSH _____ (insert any fraternity).
T
Sep 9 at 8:14 PM
I think not only were the Eagle writers unprofessional in passing off that story as a simple, run-of-the-mill drunken hookup, they also lacked any sense of professionalism in their writing. In casual conversation with your buddies, fine, but on the front page of a newspaper section you don’t use dumb phrases like “you’re thinking with your clit or your dick”. SERIOUSLY, Eagle? Our school’s paper is embarrassing enough already. Try and and at least be professional.
Sasha
Sep 30 at 7:33 PM
Sorry guys, but as a sexual assault victim who woke up the next morning with the guy “wanting to cuddle,” I have to say that this defense is utter bullshit.
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